Under Review Project Application: House Tarly of Horn Hill by Awbman

[AwbMan]

Hematite is an iron oxide compound. I think I will say this for the last time, and then any further commentary on this thread should be about my application and not about individual perception of my abilities to complete this project. I will apply for the valley that Aeks suggested. Stackhouse is currently being pursued by another. I will make a separate post regarding plans for the valley tonight. Thank you all for your feedback.

 

[Batelgause]

You seem like you are ignoring multiple respected builders advising you to go for a smaller project than hornhill with points such as "i really want to do this" or "yes mountain terra is hard but there are flat areas too(doesnt that make it even tougher ?)"

Moreover , the way you look at the immersion seems like you just wanna do it for the sake of doing so and not actually having interest on it. Because many people told you that you're not ready for such a large project and you dont have the sufficent experience to take on something of that scale you say "ok people told me i didnt have any previous projets so im gonna have one and take this) for your eyes are cleary on large & Wealthy projects. Thats an incredibly unhealthy way of thinking.

I understand that you like doing Fancy and Highclass projects and you are greatly enthusiastic about it , however , ignoring people's advices and being enthusiastic is not going to get you the project. You have to understand that people doesnt have a grudge against you. this is a community project and although personal projects are well , personal , it doesnt change the fact that this is a community work and its the communities job to ensure its quality.

To sum it up , i think you should save your plans about horn hill for later and go for a smaller , less terra-demanding project that is suited for a first project
the project is not running anywhere. You can apply for it whenever you want

 

[AwbMan]

You seem like you are ignoring multiple respected builders advising you to go for a smaller project than hornhill with points such as "i really want to do this" or "yes mountain terra is hard but there are flat areas too(doesnt that make it even tougher ?)"

Moreover , the way you look at the immersion seems like you just wanna do it for the sake of doing so and not actually having interest on it. Because many people told you that you're not ready for such a large project and you dont have the sufficent experience to take on something of that scale you say "ok people told me i didnt have any previous projets so im gonna have one and take this) for your eyes are cleary on large & Wealthy projects. Thats an incredibly unhealthy way of thinking.

I understand that you like doing Fancy and Highclass projects and you are greatly enthusiastic about it , however , ignoring people's advices and being enthusiastic is not going to get you the project. You have to understand that people doesnt have a grudge against you. this is a community project and although personal projects are well , personal , it doesnt change the fact that this is a community work and its the communities job to ensure its quality.

To sum it up , i think you should save your plans about horn hill for later and go for a smaller , less terra-demanding project that is suited for a first project
the project is not running anywhere. You can apply for it whenever you want

I have already stated that it is not appropriate to comment on your perception of my ability to complete HH, and due to this being my application, I would appreciate if you would respect my wishes. Furthermore, people do immersions for multiple reasons, one of which being to expand their resume. I want to do Horn Hill because I think that it's style is appealing, it's terrain would be fun, and it would be a great accomplishment to make before I leave for Uni. I have said time and time again that I am willing to build my resume before starting should the APPROVING MOD TEAM wish to see so. I do not wish to see you post in this thread again. That's all.

 

[Emoticone11]

The forums are a free medium for everyone and anyone to comment on project applications or other building-related discussions, so long as the tone remains positive and constructive. Criticisms related to a builder's level of experience relative to the difficulty of a particular project are valid, and should be respected when coming from experienced builders who have had practical experience with such projects and know the difficulties involved.

That said, this particular criticism has already been expressed by several people, and the discussion appears to be going in circles at this point and risks derailing into unconstructive territory. Dogpiling on a person isn't productive and will tend to cause them to take a defensive attitude rather than a growth-oriented one.

So I would ask that people cease this line of discussion, unless you have anything to add about other unrelated aspects of the application. The mods will discuss and evaluate the application on its merits and will follow up when we've reached a decision.

 

[SeapunkPeaches]

I support Awbman's application for Horn Hill. I am sure he'll try his best, and if it doesn't work out, everyone can move on. There's work to be done on the plans and the application as a whole, but that can be polished out with more *constructive* criticism. Regarding his experience, he wouldn't be the first person to do a big project without previously having lead a successful project or showcased exceptional skill. Qualifications suddenly being such a big issue and a matter of public concern seems weird, especially as this is not the first time the applicant has experienced being dogpiled on. Good luck!

 

[Margaery_Tyrell]

IRegarding his experience, he wouldn't be the first person to do a big project without previously having lead a successful project or showcased exceptional skill.

Perhaps but his statement that he wants to finish the project in less than a year before he enters college isnt feasible for even the most efficient builders.

Qualifications suddenly being such a big issue and a matter of public concern seems weird,

I’m going to push back on this point, we’ve always used qualifications as a matter of determining if a project is appropriate for a builder to take up.

Hence why every single project application has a resume section and why builders with smaller resumes either take up smaller projects before taking on a larger project or coop with another builder when it is believed that the workload may be too large in scope for the abilities of the player/s applying.

especially as this is not the first time the applicant has experienced being dogpiled on. Good luck!

I wouldn't call it dogpiling on Awbman but more like a genuine concern from the server as a whole as the project is going to be an even bigger mess to handle especially considering four people have already worked together on it and couldn't even work through it in that setup, let alone when doing it alone and with a fraction of experience.

There has already been significant feedback on the economy, castle, settlements and the missing canon, but since the app lacks a few crucial details (especially on terra) the application’s main criticism is inevitably going to be on sheer feasibility in the face if a lack of better details.

 

[Azulejo]

Just to reiterate Emot's points, I think we can leave the discussion here, more back and forth won't really go anywhere, as he said we are entering a loop. Not that the feedback given was good or bad, but there's no reason for repeating ourselves several times already. If anyone has any comments on other aspects ofc they are free to do so, forums are after all a place for open talk to be held. It's just that one of the points mentioned has already been highlighted enough. When we reach a decission we will come here to share it.​

 

[AwbMan]

Terra Test Update:

Made another terra test, focusing on the more mountainous aspects. Hope you enjoy!

 

[AerioOndos]

Could you walk us through the vegetation as it goes from lower areas through to the upper montane plants? basically what schems or plants you want to use/depict and what their arrangement might be? Also, I'd use many fewer stairs so that they're not making lots of artificial looking 45d angles, like at the top of the hill you've got in the diorama.

 

[AwbMan]

Here's another angle. Most of the schematics I will use will be the same as Starpike Lands, and some Jake schematics. I also removed the stairs at the top, hadn't noticed.

 

[EStoop]

Hey Awb,

The stairs at the top are not the only instance of those stair angles, they're happening at different places too.
I recommend making a larger terra test, a 20x20 lot is not nearly enough space to properly test for a mountainous terrain.

A few things about the test I think could be improved upon:

• The mountain seems to go from a flat surface to a steep mountain side without any inbetween. Other new-ish places in the Red Mountains have a much more gradual change from valley floor to mountain top.
• The (dirt) road is neatly lined by stone, which is higher on both sides than the road. It looks quite strange and if the mountain is structured around the road, rather than the road being carved into the mountain.
• The road is really, really steep. There is no way anything other than a goat can traverse it.
• Consider making mountain roads narrower, especially when they aren't travelled often.

Perhaps someone working on mountains often could give a few tips as well, such as Emoticone11?

 

[AerioOndos]

To expand on EStoop's point about a larger terrain test, working out some vegetation zones/general zones for different schems would be good in a larger diorama too. For instance:

• A lowlands/riparian zone with poplars, black poplars, cottonwoods etc and v small boulders/pebble piles.
• On slopes above this have an intermediate 'living' zone where most logging, farming and other agriculture occurs. Dwellings are also mostly built here. This is where you see a mixture of hardwoods and softwoods like oaks, some pines (look for warm climate pine schems with less of the triangle shape), beech, hickory, etc.
• The less fertile area above the 'living zone' where less-arable soil is used for pastures. Pines, hawthorn and other colonising plants spread where sheep and goats don't eat them down. Scraggy herbs like rosemary, broom and wild thyme would suit this area too, where herds of animals haven't grazed heavily (yet )
• Forested zone in and around all zones where it's too steep to log and the vegetation too wiry/knotted to be valuable. This is where lots of old, endangered varieties of trees have survived irl, when it was too much effort to clear them. Think about what kinds of trees could be here in this part of the Reach and what role they could play in the local culture.
• Uplands forest that acts as a wildlife corridor between forested sections of the 'living' zone. Still mostly deciduous (beeches being perfect trees, as well as many conifers). Deliberately use schems that are shorter than those in lower zones because otherwise it makes the mountains look small by contrast.
• Montane forest where your schems start properly being small. Think SpruceS and SeriTinyPine height rather than OTForestPineM or SeriBlackpineS. This should start having more of a pyramid shape among the conifers and have more bushes and open pasture.
• The highland meadow above the treeline. there can be small bushes here. Most projects don't really do this but its a great look if you pull it off.

 

[AwbMan]

Another Terra Test:

This would be found on the Starpike Border, halfway up the mountain area (not at the foot of the mountain)
Hope you enjoy!

 

[otty]

This would be found on the Starpike Border, halfway up the mountain area (not at the foot of the mountain)
Hope you enjoy!

Bigger than this even. Your mountains will not be this detailed unless you want to go in and add all the slabs and wall yourself to a good chunk of a range. People's concern is with the mountains and this is a portion of one. We want to know if you can make a mountain range, not only make them look pretty. I would recommend making this much, much bigger so we can see your ability to build and carve hills and valleys.

 

[AwbMan]

Bigger than this even. Your mountains will not be this detailed unless you want to go in and add all the slabs and wall yourself to a good chunk of a range. People's concern is with the mountains and this is a portion of one. We want to know if you can make a mountain range, not only make them look pretty. I would recommend making this much, much bigger so we can see your ability to build and carve hills and valley.

TBF the point of this test, and all of my tests, are not to show an in-progress sliver of terra but what the terra would look like when the whole project was finished. I think there has been confusion about how I think terra works. From what I can tell, people are under the impression that I believe terra to start with the small details. This is untrue. Just like a painting, you start with the basic shapes and layer on and on, refining the details as you go forward, which is what I did for this Terra test.

 

[Jeffjunior77]

TBF the point of this test, and all of my tests, are not to show an in-progress sliver of terra but what the terra would look like when the whole project was finished. I think there has been confusion about how I think terra works. From what I can tell, people are under the impression that U believe terra to start with the small details. This is untrue. Just like a painting, you start with the basic shapes and layer on and on, refining the details as you go forward, which is what I did for this Terra test.

I guess the mods and editors just want to see if u are able to do that since u don’t have any reference projects that shows that !

 

[otty]

TBF the point of this test, and all of my tests, are not to show an in-progress sliver of terra but what the terra would look like when the whole project was finished. I think there has been confusion about how I think terra works. From what I can tell, people are under the impression that I believe terra to start with the small details. This is untrue. Just like a painting, you start with the basic shapes and layer on and on, refining the details as you go forward, which is what I did for this Terra test.

Yes, but you’re missing what I’m asking for; I’m asking for the formations to see if you can do them - the under painting. These tests don’t show me you can do large scale terraforming.


Essentially +1 to Jeff’s Point.

 

[DutchGuard]

After a long discussion among the mods about large projects like Horn Hill, and the level of experience we would expect a builder to have to take it on, we have decided that we cannot approve this application.

While we think you would do a great job at executing each individual build element of the project (you've established yourself as a skilled builder), we haven't yet seen you demonstrate an ability to organise the work needed for a project of this size and complexity. We don't think it's too much to ask to see you take on a leadership role for a smaller project first. This would also give you the opportunity to develop your terraforming skills.

You should not rush this project to get to Horn Hill, doing so will reduce your chances of it being approved. The point of us asking you to lead a smaller project is to demonstrate your leadership skills **and** your building skills, not just one or the other. Rushing the project would reflect badly on you on both counts.

In the meantime, we can't reserve Horn Hill for you, but we will keep your interest in mind and discuss any plans for the area with you before we approve any application for the project. This is not to say we have heard of any other interest in leading the project.

Please reach out or reply here if you have any questions on the above.